Mega Man RPG Prototype General Discussion

 
ThatGuyNamedMikey
ThatGuyNamedMikey
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All right, this is the last non-permanent Ideas topic I make; the next one will be a Permanent one where ALL my Ideas go. Promise.

A lot of people have opinions about my ideas this week, so, I'm posting them here; easier to answer your questions and comments this way.

No flames, please, or I tell Boss and Adrian on you. I'll do it. I swear.

My ideas, this week. Careful, they're pretty controversial.
Mikey's Ideas #5: For a better experience for all.
Posted by ThatGuyNamedMikey on December 14th, 2014 at 7:28pm
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Developer
Adrian Marceau
113,913,695 BP
203 TP | 518 PP
Posted on December 16th, 2014 at 8:15pm Edited on 2014/12/16 at 8:46pm
Posted 2014/12/16 at 8:15pm Edited 2014/12/16 at 8:46pm
#1
Just finished reading through the pastebin for the recent dev chat and the one for your ideas, here are my quick thoughts on your ideas for now. I will continue thinking about them as I go about my week, of course, but these are my initial thoughts.

Idea #1: The base stats of all currently available opponents need a refit.

Nope. All robots that are to be unlockable (as per this image) need to have the same base stats. I feel like this should be incredibly obvious as to why. What would be the point of ever using the MM1 robots after you've unlocked the MM2 or MM3 robots? All playable RMs should have an equal chance of being useful, and giving some higher base stats than others works against that goal in every way.

If the robot masters are currently unbalanced (hint: they are), it's not because of their stats and changing them is not going to fix it. Current imbalances stem from many different things, including but not limited to available abilities, available starforce, field multipliers, current mechanics, and so many other factors. Any one or all of these mechanics can be tweaked to be more beneficial to the robot and - more importantly - many, many abilities are not yet programmed into the game. Wood Man may be useless now with nothing but the Leaf Shield, but with a new ability, a retooling of his current one, and/or a few more nature starforce and you never know. I'm just saying that external factors play a huge role here and a base stat increase is not the answer.

That being said, if this suggestion is in the name of making the game more challenging then we're all forgetting about the bonus stats. These are like EVs in Pokemon - effort values - that get added on top of your robot's base stats for a given level (up until a point), allowing you to surpass your pre-programmed limits. These bonus stats are not reserved for player-characters either, target robots can have them too. I could easily give target RMs in Chapter 1 maybe +100 bonus points for each stat, or +10%, or something, and then +200 in Chapter 2, etc. Whatever the case, I can increase the stats and/or difficulty of future robots without changing their base stats and messing up the whole game.


Idea #2: More Robots need attacks that are theirs and theirs alone.

I agree with the sentiment of this suggestion, but not the suggestion itself. The rules we have established for this game, for this universe, in terms of robot cores and who can equip what, are pretty common knowledge at this point and make for some very interesting and fun scenarios in both the game itself and the fanon around it. I really like them, myself, and while they may strike some as odd at first it definitely goes a long way to making each robot capable of a range of abilities (hypothetically speaking, not all abilities are done of course).

I do agree that it would be nice if other robots had truly unique abilities, and ones that only they could use, but I do not think changing the existing mechanics are the answer. Do you know how much reprogramming that would take? And I'm not just talking about the game itself, but everyone's save file? How many robot I would have to loop through and un-equip abilities that would now be illegal under Mikey's rule? And replace them, programatically, with what? Buster Shots? It doesn't make sense. I think we should find ways to work within the system. Always.

Given that weapon energy is a thing, all abilities have it, and the exact requirements change on a per-robot basis anyway... why not use that? Each robot has a total WE of 10, correct? And WE requirements are halved if the move is the same type and halved again if the move is learned by level-up? Reverse-engineer that. Imagine an ability that requires 40 WE to use. No one could use it... unless they matched the type and learned the move by level-up. What if we made Tier 3 abilities fill this void? Imagine Ice Man having a Tier 3 ability that did some crazy-awesome effect and had a 40 WE cost? When used by Ice Man, that cost would be reduced to 10 exactly... the maximum amount of WE any robot can have. It would almost be like a Giga Attack in the X series - super powerful but uses all energy and leaves you at a disadvantage for a while.

It's just one idea but it's one of many potential additions that don't scrap the foundations we've already built.

[continued in next comment]
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Developer
Adrian Marceau
113,913,695 BP
203 TP | 518 PP
Posted on December 16th, 2014 at 8:47pm Edited on 2014/12/16 at 9:26pm
Posted 2014/12/16 at 8:47pm Edited 2014/12/16 at 9:26pm
#2
Idea #3: Mechas don't have to be a joke.

I don't want to spent too much time on this one because I agree that mechas are currently bad and need to change, but I already have a few ideas of how to tweak them swirling around in my head. Again, I do not think breaking the stat-mold is the answer, but we'll come back to this after future changes have been implemented.


Idea #4: Critical Hits need to go.

I think there's some confusion about the exact rates, but I do agree that randomness can be... frustrating.

Critical hits happen, by default, 10% of the time. Certain abilities can increase it higher, to like 20%. And yes it is completely random, as far as percent-based chances go. And crits always do 2x damage. I've been playing Pokemon since the Red and Blue days and I had no idea crits ever did anything but 2x... I based the MMRPG's crits on that fact. Guess I need to look something up...

Anyway, I will take this suggestion to heart. Not removing critical hits altogether (I hate that all your ideas are about removing stuff!) - but definitely changing how they work in some way to be more fair and controllable.


Idea #5: No damage-dealing attacks should ignore stats.

I agree on some fronts and not others. I definitely agree about the Needle Cannon (how does one "ignore defense" when it's required for the damage calculation? what is actually happening with that ability?!) but not so much about some of the others.

Rain Flush, as well as any other percent-based actions need to be revised to NOT be affected by starforce or any other modifiers. We'll get into that in the next point though. Needle Cannon should ignore defense boosts (and use the base value), ignore 50% of the current defense, or something else, but it should not ignore defense entirely. Same with Drill Blitz. Others can be tweaked on an individual basis.

I completely disagree about the speed abilities though. Speed is not "ignored" by certain abilities, it's just prioritized lower. As you might have noticed in the database, every ability has a speed. Most have the same speed. A select few are faster than others and "trump" the default speed calculation when used... UNLESS both robots use one of these high-priority abilities. If both abilities have equally boosted speed, it's cancelled out and the robot's speed is taken into account once again. I feel like this alone balances the mechanic. Don't like getting trumped by Quick Boomerang? Use Proto Strike. Don't like getting trumped by Proto Strike? Use it or Mega Slide or Bass Baroque and your speed with triumph once again.


Idea #6: Attacks that deal with percentages are broken.

Yes, they are. I currently have all the percentage-based ability actions being processed as elemental - like the defense boost from Leaf Shield is calculated as a Nature-type action and thus it benefits from starforce. This is because the "damage" and "recovery" mechanics in the game are actually incredibly similar and use lots of the same code - they're just inverted +/- values with a few exceptions. I do agree that this isn't working, however, and some changes are in order.

Possible solutions that are not removing abilities?

1. Make it so all percent-based actions are non-elemental, even if the ability is elemental. The boost from raising a Leaf Shield would be neutral and would therefore ignore any nature starforce or coreboost, making it always recovery the same percent. I don't like this idea because it means certain in-game effects would no longer occur. For example, using Fire Storm after using Leaf Shield will burn the Leaf Shield away and remove its effect. This only happens because the Leaf Shield is weak to flame, and the Fire Storm rotator attaching itself to you knows it's flame type. Attachment weakness triggered.

2. Make it so all recovery actions ignore starforce and coreboost. There are few percent-based actions that should benefit from any kind of boosts without making them broken. This idea feels like it would fix most issues, except for Rain Flush...

3. Do some combination of the two and/or manually reprogram Rain Flush to make it unaffected by starforce. Maybe coreboost is still okay? This topic definitely needs more thought and planning.

I do like Mikey's ideas for status ideas, or some version of it, but it will take a lot of reprogramming and planning. That stat limit thing we'll revisit after the next update, and... neutral starforce will never be a thing. Adjust your expectations accordingly. Neutral type is the lack of a type. It is not a type in itself. In the programming, every other type has a lower-case token/value except neutral type (which has a value or nothing, null, empty, the lack of a value). It just wouldn't work.

[continued in next comment]
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Developer
Adrian Marceau
113,913,695 BP
203 TP | 518 PP
Posted on December 16th, 2014 at 9:26pm
Posted 2014/12/16 at 9:26pm
#3
Idea #7: Star Force is extremely broken, and should go.

Another nope. I am always going to side with the "change it" option rather than the "remove it" option. The negative effect starforce has had on the game's balance and economy cannot be understated, but the solution is not to remove it. It is to re-purpose it, tweak it, or introduce another element that balances it. Coreguard's mechanics and introduction notwithstanding, there are other ways to balance this and I think a lot of people other than yourself would be peeved if we removed a feature they spent 100s of hours with. I think we should scale back the effect of starforce, finalize the coreguard to even things out, and then most importantly, introduce a game element or mechanic that temporarily nullifies both those effects in certain situations. Imagine an enemy or object that - when on the field - prevents all starforce and coreguard from taking effect until destroyed? Maybe we could do something with the elusive "empty" type? Many possibilities.


Idea #8 [last one]: Level 100 isn't enough.

I still do not want to go past level 100. At least grinding for starforce was kind of fun for a while. Each star is a fun colour or combination of two, the field combinations with their mixed backgrounds and mechas are sometimes fun to look at and the different music is always a pleasure. Grinding levels though? Not nearly as interesting. I think increasing a robot's strength or usefulness post-level 100 can be done in other ways than increasing the cap. Maybe, upon reaching level 100, a robot is finally able to use that awesome core-swapping feature that I've heard so much about? Or maybe level 100s have some other thing they can improve upon or upgrade other than their level itself. Reaching level 100 should feel like an accomplishment, not one boring step on the way to 200 or 250 or more.

---

And that's it for today. I need to go to do something that doesn't involve typing, these suggestion replies really take a lot out of me. >_> Either way, thank you for the suggestions and discussions and for getting these ideas out there. Even if I don't agree with your solutions, most of your observations are spot-on and the conversations resulting from them are never a waste. Thank you.
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ThatGuyNamedMikey
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Posted on December 17th, 2014 at 3:52pm Edited on 2014/12/17 at 4:56pm
Posted 2014/12/17 at 3:52pm Edited 2014/12/17 at 4:56pm
#4
@Adrian Marceau : Well, heck, Adrian, it's you, so, of course I have to not be rude and answer back. xD

@ your response to #1: When's the last time you played the game from the start? As I've stated in previous Legacy Chat meetings, Bomb Man and Elec Man have a base Attack stat of 282 on their fields, and that's not considering the doubled base attack stats of their Abilities. That 282 is higher than any other available Robot Master boosted by the field multipliers on a non-Fusion Field. This is LONG before any Star Force is even a factor in the game. Yet more proof that the MM1 robots are hardest, which, again, is completely backwards.
Stats are a MUCH bigger problem than you think, friend.

@ your response to 2: Another broken idea you have there, especially with 8 robots on my team. You can endlessly use 'Giga Attacks' this way, forever. When my 1st robot drains all it's WE by using one, I just switch to the 2nd. The 1st now regains WE at twice the rate, and I get another Giga Attack to use. Instantly. Rinse and Repeat. Do you know what that would do to Player Battles?
Things are already too broken as it is, remember? Giga attacks aren't needed. UNIQUE attacks are what's needed. For some Tier 3 ability ideas, try the Dive Torpedo [Dive Man's Slide sprite] or the Guts Quake [when Guts jumps straight up] or the Needle Headbutt [Needle Man's headbutt sprite] or the Gemini Twins [Gives Gemini my Speedster Status, allowing him to attack twice for the following 2 or 3 turns]. Come talk to me if you want more ideas. You know how to PM me [it's your site; you better know how xD ].

@ your response to #3: So, MM10 Mechas will have 200 base stats, too? All right. You'll see what I mean when they just become EXP magnets, allowing players to dispatch of the later RM's and Bosses like scrap [dem overkill exp bonuses, man].

@ your response to #4: Removing stuff is not conceding defeat, nor is it a sign of weakness: Who are you racing against to build this? :P
I hate that most of your remedies is to make the game more complicated by overthinking and adding broken and easily exploited game mechanics. :P
In all seriousness, though, nothing more should be left to chance than absolutely necessary. Critical hits ruin the 'strategy' part of the whole game, randomly spotting off double damage when the game wants isn't strategy. And again, I keep finding that this is a problem much more near the beginning of the game, where the MM1 robots are already un-beginner-friendly as it is.
Oh, by the way, Pokémon attacks--most of them, anyway--does not deal absolute damage totals. Sometimes you can actually get 'critical hit!' prompts when it only does what seems like 1.6x or 1.7x damage, and yes, 3x damage is VERY much possible.

@ your response to #5: As I told Tails once, the fact that my robots --where there's not a stat that even touches 3,100, let alone 9,999--can dispatch of robots in Tails' army like scrap is ridiculous. If I choose my attacks against his teams correctly, I can make all those 9,999's look completely and utterly meaningless, and get billions of BP in the process. You don't find that ridiculous? Even a little bit?

@ your response to #'s 6 and 7: I don't mean to be rude, but, No neutral Stars is a complete contradiction to what you say in your response to #7, my friend. Roll, Disco and Rhythm [and possibly Rush, Treble and Beat] will STAY weak compared to all the others? Forever? This is why I suggested #7 to start with; if you're going to omit one type of Star Force, you should omit them ALL--your response to #6 just revealed [likely accidently] that Neutral-type robots are going to be the weakest type of robot in the whole game, forever. I thought you DIDN'T want to 'piss people off'? :P
It's funny how your remedies are to add MORE things and plop MORE work on yourself instead of saving yourself the agony and the time and simply UNdoing what's obvious. If you're not careful, you'll end up having a mechanic regulating a 2nd mechanic meant for balancing out a 3rd mechanic meant for normalizing a 4th mechanic, etc, and STILL not achieve the desired result [and have yourself even MORE broken game mechanics as a result]. So, we now know that you couldn't care less about who you anger, so, again, what's the problem with making the game UNbroken and removing them all? :P

@ your response to #8: Lv. 100 is not an accomplishment when you can get there in 10 battles [LESS than 10 if you're Bass, Disco, Proto Man and Rhythm, since they start at Lv.'s 11, 11, 21 and 21, respectively]. It's also not an accomplishment when every robot you pick up is already AT Lv. 100, as the later obtainable bots will be. You are, again, overthinking this with some new game mechanic that'll break your game even more, my friend. Again, the cap doesn't have to be Lv. 200 or Lv. 250, but, it CAN'T stay at Lv. 100. Not if you want any semblance of challenge in the latest stages of the storyline.
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ThatGuyNamedMikey
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Posted on December 17th, 2014 at 4:53pm
Posted 2014/12/17 at 4:53pm
#5
So, there you go. Mikey being a stubborn idiot by talking back to The Adrian, right? No. Mikey stating what he sees to be blatantly obvious and trying to keep you from making more broken game mechanics. I do care enough to tell you that 170% of 100 isn't 17,000, remember? :P

I care about this thing you made. Just don't wanna see it [more] broken.
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Administrator
MegaBossMan
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Posted on December 18th, 2014 at 6:57pm
Posted 2014/12/18 at 6:57pm
#6
Alright, alright. I've been saying in the Chat that I'd post here for a while now, and I am a man of my word. Now, I will say right now, I don't agree with everything Mike is saying here. I'm also not agreeing with everything Adrian is saying here(Shocker!), so it's about time I put my 5¢s in.

Idea #1: The base stats of all currently available opponents need a refit
Again with the stats! Oh, does that word shuffle my metaphorical feathers. The whole talk of stats is really getting on my nerves now.

Look. The problem with chapter 1 is NOT the stats. No matter what, the base for all robots(excluding exceptions like Slur) will ALWAYS be 300, no matter changes. I've replayed the game more times than you can count, and that is not the problem. The problem is this-Outside forces. Cut Man isn't hard in any way due to STATS. He's hard because of unfair multipliers and the fact that his move is OP early in-game. Wood Man has the same amount of stat points Cut Man has-And he's weak. So, changing their stats will fix the problem? No, it won't. The reason why is because Wood Man has Leaf Shield, and Cut Man has Rolling Cutter. The moves aren't balanced fairly, it's not the stats. Plus, field multipliers is a big part of that as well. Starforce, too. Gemini Man will not be as good as Fire Man not because of stats, it's because of starforce. Whatever the problem is, it simply isn't the stats. "But MegaBoss, it is the stats!" No, it's not. "Oh, Elec Man has 282 attack!" On his field, yes. If it was because of the stats, then my Elec Man would have been OP facing the other robots. That is not the case.

Idea #2: More Robots need attacks that are theirs and theirs alone.
Yeah, I see what you're saying here. Of course, unique moves are important-But they shouldn't overshadow other, more important things. Things like this should come last. Oh, and Mechas aren't so unique. They each have two other clones of themselves[besides Mets], and the move they all three have is the only one they can use. Tier 3s make sense, and Adrian's idea works. Except...Not entirely. Mike makes a very good point here. Tier 3s would need some sort of balance for them to work.

Idea #3: Mechas don't have to be a joke
Honestly, I get Mets are bad. I really do. But do they need to be better than Robot Masters? No. It bothers me enough that enemies that are supposed to be taken out in one hit[Like your common enemy] is half of an average Robot Master. However, from a gameplay stance, it makes sense to make them less bad. However, instead of buffing them and making Chapter 1 even harder, since the mechas are supposed to be freebies, we need to think of something that can give them an edge, but not TOO much of an edge.....

Idea #4: Critical Hits need to go
No. That'll make the game so predictable at that point, and so unsurprising. However, you're only looking on the bad side of this. Throughout the whole game and even just in the first chapter, Criticals CAN help you. I'll be dam*ed if that criticals weren't there, I would've lost against a Robot Master. Oh, but wait? Criticals HELP people? Wouldn't removing it make the game harder? Actually, chances are, not much would change. It's a double-edged sword. Of course, 2x is a bit too much, and since it's so troublesome, lower the percent for it. That should even things up, and make it less hard. "Oh, but Boss!" Don't Boss me, nobody here has tried it. Look, Adrian could go play the original game from a new save file on his test and development game, try the lower critical thing, and see what happens. Experimentation with justification, my friends.

Idea 5: No damage-dealing attacks should ignore stats
NAW HOLD IT RIGHT THERE, MISTER I DISAGREE WITH-

Ha, it actually makes sense though. I'll give you that. Adrian's idea with Needle Cannon, ignoring defense boosts, isn't bad either. Nothing here suggested is disagreeable. Is that....Is that the first time that's ever happened?

Oh, and Speed isn't useless, it decides accuracy, and also decides speed in situations like Adrian said. It's not bad. It's really not.

Idea #6: Attacks that deal with percentages are broken
Yeah, makes sense. I'm not too eager about throwing away weaknesses to those moves mentioned though: That'll make moves like Fire Storm completely broken. Sure, the defense won't be as bad, but that means no way to stop it. This is something needing more thought....

Idea #7: Star Force is extremely broken, and should go
Nonononoono. Aren't you the person who said Easy Mode would take a lot of work, and then you believe that we need to cut something out that took a lot of work? Look, Starforce is broken to you and me. You know who has no problems with Star Force? NO ONE ELSE. Look, you broke the game. You broke it by getting all the Star Force. We could just lower the amount it increases, coreguard comes into play, banda-bing, banda boom. You're done. [Continued on next post]
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Administrator
MegaBossMan
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Posted on December 18th, 2014 at 7:42pm Edited on 2014/12/18 at 8:52pm
Posted 2014/12/18 at 7:42pm Edited 2014/12/18 at 8:52pm
#7
Alright, I got my qualms about that out of the way. Now, what was that about no Neutral Stars? You know, I wondered something.....Why not make a new type "Support" for them? That'll equal an amount of 21 different types. Neutral-types could become this Empty-type we speak of to negate Star Force. Still an amount of 21. We could make Support Stars, and we're done. Well, not done, but it fixes the whole sucky neutral-type thing. The only other robot that is neutral is Met. If you wanted, we could make him negate Star Force, or we could just transfer him to a different type. Course, how would Support-types use neutral moves? Like how Robot Masters use neutral moves like Buster Shot! Bang!

Idea 8[Last One]: Level 100 isn't enough
And here it comes again. Look, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. As of now, we aren't up to the bridge. You contradict yourself Mike. You say that we overthink things, and yet you're thinking of a bridge we're not up to yet. Plus, 100 is not the end. We simply add "EVs" to those robots. Like Tails's robots. There, we won't have to program about 100, but you can have robots up to 5000. Heck, if we can program it so that robots on the game's side aren't affected by limits[This will take a bit of programming], then you can have some pretty tough robots. We'll cross the bridge when we come to it Mike. For now, don't overthink it. We still aren't breaking robots past 50, and that's with extreme jumps in level.

So, there. I can already see your counter-argument coming. Well, read this first, don't be so focused and be more open to opinions, and DON'T overthink the bridge if we're not there yet. Nothing is broken as of yet, unless you do it on purpose.

The game isn't perfect. However, this game is Mega Man RPG Prototype, and even though it will always be called Prototype, it won't always be a Prototype. However, we're not at that point yet. Dovidenja!

"Oh, but MegaBoss!"

I already see it coming. I know that it's not going to be specifically Mike and that I shouldn't be calling it, but that's what I putting my bets on. Sorry, Mikey! Ah well. I like well thought-out counter arguments anyway.
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ThatGuyNamedMikey
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Posted on December 19th, 2014 at 11:29am Edited on 2014/12/19 at 11:34am
Posted 2014/12/19 at 11:29am Edited 2014/12/19 at 11:34am
#8
@MerryBossMan : Oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, dear. How is it that I see things you still can't?

@ your response to #1: BAAAAAAAAAD comparison. Wood Man's Base Attack is 132 on his stage with an attack that needs 2 turns to launch. THAT, plus the face that nearly 1/2 of Wood's Base stats in centered on Defense, are the reasons why Wood Man sucks. Cut Man's base attack is 214 on his stage with an attack that can hit 3x, and his stats, for the most part, are well-rounded, making him the MUCH more lethal opponent.
Fire Man and Gemini Man is another bad one. Fire Man has 266 base attack on his stage. Gemini Man only 182 base attack on his, and mind you, you don't face Gemini Man in a storyline scenario, yet. Pretty lopsided.
Elec Man is VERY OP [both FOR you and especially AGAINST you] once you put Thunder Beam into it. Don't make me get into that again. That also has to do with both Idea #6 AND stats.
You're missing the point. It's not that the MM1 bots themselves are OP [most are actually UNDERpowered]. It's that they're OP on THEIR Field, and you must FIGHT them on THEIR Fields.Why are the MM1 bots OP on their fields? Their stats. You face them first, an their stats are too lopsided for being the first major enemies you fight. Plain and simple. Especially Bomb Man and Elec Man. There's not a playable robot in the entire GAME with as much attack power as they have. Not yet, anyway.
Stats are not only *A* problem, they're *THE* problem. I shouldn't have to consult a BBS or a guide for the FIRST CHAPTER IN THE GAME, you know? This isn't a sequel. This isn't an X/BN/Zero game, either. Heck, even MMX1 isn't so complicated that you need an instruction manual [or a BBS].
This is.

@ your response to #2: The Nitron family would like a word with you.
Jokes to the side, if we put a stop in the normalcy and sameness, NOW, it'll save Adrian a bunch of trouble later. Again, barring that, Tier 3 moves should just be slightly more useful than your normal Tier 1 and Tier 2 moves, and they should really be unique. I mean, TRULY unique. Make Gyro Man fly. Make Drill Man dig underground. Make Hard Man do his patented [not really] 12-damage headbutt. Make Quick Man use his supposedly awesome [not really] agility to give him my Evade status [ups chance of avoiding all Abilities to 30%.] for 2 or 3 Turns.

@ your response to #3: They're not ALL supposed to be freebies. I just got finished talking about how, at some point, the game has to stop treating you like a beginner. NOTHING should still have a base stat total as low as 200 when you're 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 chapters into it. Just no. RPG's--good ones, anyway--don't have enemies that wimpy that late on, and Prototype shouldn't, either. All the current v1 Mechas, regardless of Level, are easy to crush for when you meet them. But, it CAN'T stay that way for EVERY v1 Mecha in the game.
In fact, The stats for current v1 Mechas are so low, that the only chance they have of attacking first comes when you factor Attack Speed into it. That's ridiculous. The base stat totals of Mechas must also start increasing at some point as you advance later on in the game, especially if you want to create a more enjoyable experience. As I've been saying, easy does NOT automatically = enjoyable, and the game shouldn't be treating you like a beginn.....you know.
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ThatGuyNamedMikey
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Posted on December 19th, 2014 at 11:30am
Posted 2014/12/19 at 11:30am
#9
@MerryBossMan : @ your response to #'s 4 and 5: Unpredictability is already why we have this thing called Ability accuracies. You've noticed the percentages attached to every Ability. That's it's base accuracy percentage before Speed is calculated, so, believe me, there's already an unpredictability factor in place LONG before Critical Hits are part of the equation: Will you hit or will you miss? This is a strategy game anyway, so randomosity doesn't need to be taking place more than absolutely necessary. Critical Hits are NOT necessary. You have all 3 Paper Mario games, Boss: Play a full front-to-back run on one of them if you still think that Critical Hits and 'randomosity' is important in making a memorably good RPG experience.
By the way, I've been shafted by Criticals too much in both the Pokemon series AND this game to ever see any 'good' side of Criticals. The game shouldn't get to decide how much damage something does. It'd help more if you remove Criticals anyway, since, chances are, they'll happen more TO you than FOR you, no matter WHAT percentages Adrian programmed them for.
As for the Speed stat as we currently know it, it's almost completely redundant, as I stated in 12/14's Legacy Chat. Why? Because even though it determines accuracy, there's already a system in place determining accuracy, and it's attached to every offensive ability in the game. Speed [as I also said in the same Legacy Chat] should be determining who attacks first, not some "Attack Speed" stat that makes all stats in general look completely useless. Again, my army should not be crushing Tails's in ANY battle, but they do, and almost easily, at that. Surely YOU can see that's ridiculous.
................right?

@ your response to #6: My remedy for offensive Abilities that deal damage in percentages was to give them static base attack numbers like every other well-regulated and well-moderated attack in the game. My remedy for offensive Abilities which increase/decrease stats by a percentage is to program some of my Status ideas in their stead, so that they increase stats by the same percentage regardless of how much damage it does, or how much Star Force is beefing it up.
If you have any better ideas........

@ your response to #7: You think that just because no one has told you that they have qualms about Star Force making the game too easy, that they AUTOMATICALLY don't have a problem with it? Stop pretending that you're *that* closed-minded; you aren't. :P
You know who ELSE broke the game? You. And pretty much everyone who has at least 1/2 the Stars. I've already explained during the 12/14 Leagacy Chat about how Coreguard will change nothing except make things more broken; if you have a lot of Cores, the storyline is easy as crap, even vs. Bosses. If you have a lot of Starforce AND Cores, the damage from the Starforce will make the Cores look like scrap.
Even if 99 Cores negated 99% of 750,000 damage, that's still 7,500 damage. -99% of 500,000 damage? 5,000. With the help of the Star Force AND Field Multipliers AND Robot Weaknesses AND Abilities that boost stats up to 99,999, come the MM5 update, base damage will reach levels like that, making Coreguard look ridiculous. Just to remind you, with EVERYONE's base HP at 100, you'll never see HP over 4,462 on a playable robot, save for the 3 lady bots.
There's nothing Corguard can do to fix this without being broken in some OTHER way. 99% is about as close to unbroken as it can make things. The lower it gets from that, the more useless it literally becomes. The higher it gets from that, the closer you get to making ALL attacks do 1 damage. This is why Coreguard is scrap. And also why the Star Force needs to go, it's literally breaking the game more and more the further into development the game goes.
As for your Support-Type idea, while it SOUNDS clever, you forget something; a 21st Type wouldn't be needed if ALL Star Force was gone.

@ your response to #8: There's ALREADY 'EVs': KO an enemy Robot and the Robot who dealt the blow will gain a little bit more Attack, Defense and Speed than [s]he normally would.
As for the bridge, we're already getting very close to it, by the by, what with more intro stages, more bots, at least 1 confirmed incoming Boss and 8 brand new robots to face in the MM5 update. Contrary to your response, Lv. 50 HAS been broken: Cossack's 'Final Destination III' bots are at Lv. 55, and it's EXTREMELY likely the MM5 update will push it to Lv. 60, Lv. 65 or even more; Do you REALLY think that the update that has Lv. 100 storyline bots is that far off?

So, there. I tried to find an agreeable point in there, but, it's likely buried under ideas that either cram more broken mechanics into the game or are just plain wrong, especially when you do all the proper research and math.
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ThatGuyNamedMikey
2,395,585,460 BP
32 TP | 451 PP
Posted on December 19th, 2014 at 11:31am
Posted 2014/12/19 at 11:31am
#10
@MerryBossMan : Pardon the triple post, but, again, I'm making extremely valid points, here: No garbage or nonsensical gibberish, right? Just ideas backed up with some facts and flanked on either side with some hard truths. :P
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TailsMK4Omega
2,413,905,683 BP
20 TP | 467 PP
Posted on December 19th, 2014 at 1:13pm
Posted 2014/12/19 at 1:13pm
#11

gemini-man ...Darn you and your persistence Mikey. I guess I'm going to have to jump into the fray here. I won't comment on the ideas directly, but rather just say my thoughts of a few topics. I will just say you will lose credibility if you push your ideas too much, and if that happens, some people may not want to see what future ideas you will suggest.

First, a couple of mistakes you made: MM5 robots won't affect the story at all. MM3 didn't. Only MM1, MM2, and MM4 robots are going to be directly fought in the story. The other robots HAVE to be unlocked by purchasing them in the shop. I have no idea if any of the purchasable robots will have a direct impact on the story, but you do forget that the story isn't anywhere close to being finished. It's very possible the FD stages will get changed in the future, but until then, the robot levels are staying as is, no matter how much content is able to be purchased.

Second, you're overlooking the 'EVs'. Did you forget that robots can continue to get stats even after they've reached level 100? Sure, the robot levels may not change, but their stats can EASILY be increased still. Now tell me why story robots can't get the same treatment?

I'll make one other point...Starforce is not going away, so FORGET about trying to get rid of it. You forget that the Starforce itself CAN BE CHANGED. It's clear now that increasing damage by 1% each Star is out of control. Here's what I propose to solve the problem of the increasing power of Starforce:

1. Reduce the power of Starforce, maybe cut its power in half, and see how long it takes for the Starforce to become very strong again.

2. 99% Defense for Coreguard? That actually sounds very overpowered to me. I suggest 0.5% increase for each Core, up to almost half damage from elements. Couple that with...

3. For each Star, increase elemental defense by the same amount as power. So we're looking at about half damage again for elements.

This not only provides around 99.5% protection against elements (and this also makes it very easy to adjust since the protection only comes from two sources), but the overall power of Starforce is greatly reduced, making it VERY unlikely to get to those extreme examples Mikey mentioned earlier until much later in the game's development, and if Starforce ends up getting out of control at that point, we can just reduce its power some more. I'm even thinking that 99.5% DEFENSE against elements might even be TOO MUCH protection. The amount of power Starforce provides can always be adjusted. There's NO NEED to remove an element of the game that actually is pretty original compared to other games of the same genre.

It might be time for me to start making idea threads of my own... ring-ring
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ThatGuyNamedMikey
2,395,585,460 BP
32 TP | 451 PP
Posted on December 19th, 2014 at 7:56pm
Posted 2014/12/19 at 7:56pm
#12
@IceTailsMK4 : Some people already don't wanna see my ideas, and that's OK; That's a reaction that I'm willing to put up with to challenge the broken systems that exist, and to see about offputting future broken systems by coming up with more solid ones. Someone has to have the gravitas to try to help the Prototype by point out a weak system when they see it BEFORE it's already implemented; might as well be me.

First, you've also made a mistake: Additional intro stages have been confirmed, and there's no promise that they'll all be Lv. 1, nor is there no promise that Adrian DOESN'T have plans to make players face Trill or other Bosses more than once. There's also no publically known TRUE storyline in place, yet, beside the Doctors and their robots mysteriously ending up in the Prototype to start with; The story hasn't STARTED, let alone finished. That matters not, though, as Adrian has confirmed in a previous Legacy Chat that he plans to work on the story last, so, enemy bot Levels matter even now, in this early stage of development.

Second, I mentioned the 'EVs' in my response to Boss's response to my Idea #8. I'm aware of the stats increasing after Lv. 100, but, the problem is that without ADDITIONAL coding and programming by Adrian--which can be completely avoided by simply raising the Level cap, by the by--Giving EV's to storyline enemies will be pretty difficult, if not impossible. I know this because some VERY good programming was likely needed to give Lance his 3 hacked Dragonites [2 are Lv. 48, 1 is Lv. 50, and Dragonair doesn't evolve into Dragonite until AT LEAST Lv. 55] in Pokemon Soul Silver. Why not save him the trouble of extra coding when he can, hmm?

Third, Adrian can change Star Force all he wants; It's going to be broken in some way, shape, form, fashion, sense, matter, magnitude or dimension, always and forever. There's over 10,000 of them planned for the game now. OVER 10,000. Adrian CAN'T keep it perfectly moderated with well over 10,000 of them to keep track of. Period. Not even the greatest programmer on Earth could maintain an even likably moderated Star Force, in my opinion. I'm trying to help Adrian realize this sooner than later; Star Force will ALWAYS be out of control.

Finally, your 3 points for moderating Star Force are all moot, because, as I said, Coreguard either doesn't block enough damage or will block TOO MUCH damage [i.e. 1 damage per turn], even 49.5% element defense can't save anyone from the combined power of Max Attack Stats AND Field Multipliers AND 10,000+ Star Force AND Robot Weaknesses AND Critical Hits.
Instead of Adrian making more and more work for himself, I'm simply saying that he can make things SO much easier on himself in the long run by just nixing the incredibly broken animal that is Star Force, altogether. It's an original element, yes, but, so are Program Advances in the BN series, and those are just as galactically broken; Just saying. Prototype would be a much better Prototype without it, and who doesn't want a better Prototype, hmm?

Oh, and please make some idea threads of your own. I'd LOVE that. xD
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