Mega Man RPG Prototype Community
2015 Update Preview : Stats, Alts, and Elemental Forces
March 21st, 2015 at 6:34pm
Developer
Ageman20XX
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP |
575 PP
Hey! Remember the "Winter Update Preview" thread? Mind-blowing, right? Yeah? Now forget that! That's the past! Shut it off, Zhu Li!
A lot has changed since I created that other topic and I'd like to start fresh. Some screenshots will be re-posted, some will be new. All will attempt to be more relevant to the current state of things. So let's get started, shall we?
Starforce. (Or is it Star Force?) What an... interesting mechanic. So complicated, so overpowered, so controversial, so difficult to balance... and yet I insist on keeping it in the game . Why? Because, deep down, I know it has the potential to be a great thing. Hunting them all down in and of itself is both a joy and a challenge, and the god-like powers they grant are well worth the effort. Sure, tracking down all (currently) 1024 stars can be a grind, sometimes a bore, but when you finally get there it's incredibly rewarding. At such high power levels your character is able to mow-down enemies like it's nobody's business and with relatively little resistance! It's pretty great... unless you're talking about player battles.
As the defending team in a player battle, you (currently) have no defense against the opponent's starforce. This combined with the fact that your opponent is able to see your entire team before selecting theirs puts you at a huge disadvantage. This lead many players in the top spots to greatly dislike the player battle system, and others to hate the starforce system and suggest its removal. Both of these needed to be fixed, of course, but axing either them was not an option. Too many users have put forth massive amounts of time and effort into collecting their stars and the idea of axing them or removing their primary function does not seem like the fair or correct choice.
Because of these things, I've spent the last several months (almost a year now...) revising and tweaking the starforce mechanic and how it interacts with the game based on both my own ideas and feedback from the community in chats. I've also been revising other parts of the game, of course, and many of them coincide with fixing these issues. Some mechanics, like "coreguard" were conceived and quickly abandoned, while others like the Dark Elements have grown and evolved into something new and different. I believe that what we have now will be for the best, but as always I'm open to more changes as time goes on and as I get feedback from the community.
Now, before I go on, I want to apologize to those who have been following this thread since the beginning and trying to make heads or tails of the whole process. I know it's been hard to keep track of what will be and wont be included in the update, but that's one of the pitfalls of open development. I could easily have kept my mouth quiet for a year and let everyone go stir crazy, but I wanted to share my thought process with everyone and build this thing together. So yeah, I'm both sorry and very thankful to all who have helped me sort through the messy details of this gigantic Winter Summer(?) Update.
Database Update Preview 2015/04/05
A snapshot of the prototype's database page as it will be after the update, including new robots, abilities, items, and more.
2015/04/04
Now, on with the show!!!!!
A lot has changed since I created that other topic and I'd like to start fresh. Some screenshots will be re-posted, some will be new. All will attempt to be more relevant to the current state of things. So let's get started, shall we?
Starforce. (Or is it Star Force?) What an... interesting mechanic. So complicated, so overpowered, so controversial, so difficult to balance... and yet I insist on keeping it in the game . Why? Because, deep down, I know it has the potential to be a great thing. Hunting them all down in and of itself is both a joy and a challenge, and the god-like powers they grant are well worth the effort. Sure, tracking down all (currently) 1024 stars can be a grind, sometimes a bore, but when you finally get there it's incredibly rewarding. At such high power levels your character is able to mow-down enemies like it's nobody's business and with relatively little resistance! It's pretty great... unless you're talking about player battles.
As the defending team in a player battle, you (currently) have no defense against the opponent's starforce. This combined with the fact that your opponent is able to see your entire team before selecting theirs puts you at a huge disadvantage. This lead many players in the top spots to greatly dislike the player battle system, and others to hate the starforce system and suggest its removal. Both of these needed to be fixed, of course, but axing either them was not an option. Too many users have put forth massive amounts of time and effort into collecting their stars and the idea of axing them or removing their primary function does not seem like the fair or correct choice.
Because of these things, I've spent the last several months (almost a year now...) revising and tweaking the starforce mechanic and how it interacts with the game based on both my own ideas and feedback from the community in chats. I've also been revising other parts of the game, of course, and many of them coincide with fixing these issues. Some mechanics, like "coreguard" were conceived and quickly abandoned, while others like the Dark Elements have grown and evolved into something new and different. I believe that what we have now will be for the best, but as always I'm open to more changes as time goes on and as I get feedback from the community.
Now, before I go on, I want to apologize to those who have been following this thread since the beginning and trying to make heads or tails of the whole process. I know it's been hard to keep track of what will be and wont be included in the update, but that's one of the pitfalls of open development. I could easily have kept my mouth quiet for a year and let everyone go stir crazy, but I wanted to share my thought process with everyone and build this thing together. So yeah, I'm both sorry and very thankful to all who have helped me sort through the messy details of this gigantic Winter Summer(?) Update.
Database Update Preview 2015/04/05
A snapshot of the prototype's database page as it will be after the update, including new robots, abilities, items, and more.
2015/04/04
Now, on with the show!!!!!
2015 Update Preview : Stats, Alts, and Elemental Forces
Posted by Ageman20XX on March 21st, 2015 at 6:34pm
Viewed 5673 Times
Posted by Ageman20XX on March 21st, 2015 at 6:34pm
Viewed 5673 Times
TheDoc
TheDoc
12,484,029 BP
3 TP |
717 PP
Posted on March 23rd, 2015 at 9:23pm
Posted 2015/03/23 at 9:23pm
#1
@Adrian Marceau : Although I did agree with the SNC solution we arrived at, I like this one better. It still gives the primary core the emphasis it needs, but also doesn't necessarily penalize the 2nd core abilities either. Whether or not the opportunity cost is balanced out is something we'll have to see after the update has been applied, but from where I'm standing it looks great to me.
Ageman20XX
Developer
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP |
575 PP
Posted on March 23rd, 2015 at 9:29pm
Edited on 2015/03/23 at 9:30pm
Posted 2015/03/23 at 9:29pm
Edited 2015/03/23 at 9:30pm
#2
@AlphaOmegaZX : Thanks AlphaOmegaZX - welcome to the community and I'm glad you enjoy the game! :D
@Jdude330 : I believe the new mechanics proposed earlier in the thread should solve all those balancing problems in regards to player battles (single-player campaign effects are another beast) but thank you for your input.
@Bt Man : Yes, that is correct. Because Guts Man does not get WE reduction bonuses from abilities equipped this way, the Fire Chaser would still cost 8 WE to use (out of 10) which is quite a lot. I think there will still be a lot of strategy involved.
@Jdude330 : I don't think equipping Guts Man with a Flame ability is totally useless. Under the right circumstances he would do a lot of damage. If you have him hold a Flame Core he could theoretically equip Fire Chaser and another move like Flame Buster in a second slot. Charging the Flame Buster boosts Flame type abilities by 50% as long as you have the glow, so if you use Fire Chaser right after that Guts Man could easily do lots of damage and function as a dual type robot if you wanted him to (just as any one else could). It's just one of many options though - maybe you value added WE/LE instead of more moves - it's completely up to you.
@Retro Pikachu : I'd be curious to know what you liked about the mechanic. Whenever I was playtesting I found it kind of boring and of little use - the WE and damage bonuses didn't seem worth blocking off the rest of your move pool. Please let me know how you used it effectively or why you liked it and I'll see if I can leave it in some way. Maybe if a Copy Core holds onto a core it also changes their colour? Let me know what you think.
@Jdude330 : I believe the new mechanics proposed earlier in the thread should solve all those balancing problems in regards to player battles (single-player campaign effects are another beast) but thank you for your input.
@Bt Man : Yes, that is correct. Because Guts Man does not get WE reduction bonuses from abilities equipped this way, the Fire Chaser would still cost 8 WE to use (out of 10) which is quite a lot. I think there will still be a lot of strategy involved.
@Jdude330 : I don't think equipping Guts Man with a Flame ability is totally useless. Under the right circumstances he would do a lot of damage. If you have him hold a Flame Core he could theoretically equip Fire Chaser and another move like Flame Buster in a second slot. Charging the Flame Buster boosts Flame type abilities by 50% as long as you have the glow, so if you use Fire Chaser right after that Guts Man could easily do lots of damage and function as a dual type robot if you wanted him to (just as any one else could). It's just one of many options though - maybe you value added WE/LE instead of more moves - it's completely up to you.
@Retro Pikachu : I'd be curious to know what you liked about the mechanic. Whenever I was playtesting I found it kind of boring and of little use - the WE and damage bonuses didn't seem worth blocking off the rest of your move pool. Please let me know how you used it effectively or why you liked it and I'll see if I can leave it in some way. Maybe if a Copy Core holds onto a core it also changes their colour? Let me know what you think.
MetaKirbSter
MetaKirbSter
12,770,493 BP
54 TP |
1665 PP
Posted on March 25th, 2015 at 5:24pm
Posted 2015/03/25 at 5:24pm
#3
@Adrian Marceau : About alpha, He's not new... He resetted. That was his name a while ago...
Ageman20XX
Developer
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP |
575 PP
Posted on March 25th, 2015 at 7:15pm
Edited on 2015/03/25 at 7:22pm
Posted 2015/03/25 at 7:15pm
Edited 2015/03/25 at 7:22pm
#4
Just wanted to post a few new update screenshots. Tomahawk Man - sprite editing by The Zion and assembly by myself - has finally been added to the update and will appear in post-game battles just like the rest of the preview bots. You can catch a gimps of him on the bench in these two Bonus Field screens:
Note that in these screenshots, my game only has 4 Impact Stars and 0 Earth Stars - this is why Rhythm's defense against the Oil Slider is only boosted by 40 points as opposed to the 2,520 points that our "1024 club" would benefit from post-update. :)
Note that in these screenshots, my game only has 4 Impact Stars and 0 Earth Stars - this is why Rhythm's defense against the Oil Slider is only boosted by 40 points as opposed to the 2,520 points that our "1024 club" would benefit from post-update. :)
MetaKirbSter
MetaKirbSter
12,770,493 BP
54 TP |
1665 PP
Posted on March 25th, 2015 at 7:21pm
Posted 2015/03/25 at 7:21pm
#5
@Adrian Marceau : Nice. So, Why is there 4 opponents at the start instead of 6? eh.
Beta Shadow
Contributor
Beta Shadow
33,453,614 BP
44 TP |
4930 PP
Posted on March 25th, 2015 at 7:42pm
Posted 2015/03/25 at 7:42pm
#6
@Adrian Marceau : So, at some point in time, we will face Tomahawk Man?
ThatOneEnderMan
ThatOneEnderMan
126,598,150 BP
12 TP |
703 PP
Posted on March 25th, 2015 at 7:58pm
Posted 2015/03/25 at 7:58pm
#7
@Adrian Marceau : Tomahawk Man, eh? Now, there is only plant man (I heard MBM was making plant man sprites, but i'm not too sure.) And centaur man. Also, the starforce now boosts defence now? Or was that always a thing?
MegaBossMan
Administrator
MegaBossMan
79,651,336 BP
55 TP |
1831 PP
Posted on March 25th, 2015 at 8:02pm
Posted 2015/03/25 at 8:02pm
#8
@Bt Man : Yes, at some point in time, you'll be able to face Tomahawk Man in the Bonus Field. A few(or more) Updates after that, and we'll probably be gain his Field as well.
@ThatOneEnderMan : Yes, Tomahawk is finished. I'm not making Plant Man sprites, however, Raynor is. If he doesn't finish after a while though, I'll take the relms. I do plan to make sprites for Centaur in the future though :) And yes, in the Update, Starforce will also be able to block elemental damage.
I should also mention that I made the colors for Tomahawk, and provided a few sprites of my own that may or may not show up. Everything else though, was Zion :)
@ThatOneEnderMan : Yes, Tomahawk is finished. I'm not making Plant Man sprites, however, Raynor is. If he doesn't finish after a while though, I'll take the relms. I do plan to make sprites for Centaur in the future though :) And yes, in the Update, Starforce will also be able to block elemental damage.
I should also mention that I made the colors for Tomahawk, and provided a few sprites of my own that may or may not show up. Everything else though, was Zion :)
Retrop
Retrop
14,718,847 BP
31 TP |
768 PP
Posted on March 28th, 2015 at 5:03am
Posted 2015/03/28 at 5:03am
#9
@Adrian Marceau : Sorry for the wait!
I'm actually not too sure why I liked the core change system. I guess it's the fact I'm a sucker for super forms (Super Adaptor, Super Sonic, Starboy, Mega Evolution, Beast Out, etc etc) that having the copy core bots transform and have more uses of ____ kinda felt OP. The good kind of OP. However, I can see why it can be viewed as boring, and the new sub-core system allows for lots of battle strategy and allows me to give Roll "the ultimate cleanser" :3
I'm actually not too sure why I liked the core change system. I guess it's the fact I'm a sucker for super forms (Super Adaptor, Super Sonic, Starboy, Mega Evolution, Beast Out, etc etc) that having the copy core bots transform and have more uses of ____ kinda felt OP. The good kind of OP. However, I can see why it can be viewed as boring, and the new sub-core system allows for lots of battle strategy and allows me to give Roll "the ultimate cleanser" :3
Ageman20XX
Developer
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP |
575 PP
Posted on April 3rd, 2015 at 2:44pm
Edited on 2015/04/03 at 3:23pm
Posted 2015/04/03 at 2:44pm
Edited 2015/04/03 at 3:23pm
#10
@MetaKirbSter : There are four opponents in that screenshot because I adjusted how many show up on the Bonus Field II mission. It might change back before launch but there's a related idea I'm still debating with myself. I'll let you know when/if this changes.
@Bt Man : Yes, Tomahawk Man will eventually be in the game when the update is released. He wont be unlockable but you will be able to challenge him on the bonus fields and any Earth type starforce missions like the other preview bots.
@ThatOneEnderMan : Yes, when the new update is released the mechanics of starforce will change. Rather than boosting all abilities of a certain element by 10%, starforce will instead grant +10 Attack toward and/or +10 Defense against all damage of that type.
@Retro Pikachu : Thanks for responding. I'll take your words into consideration for possible mechanics in the update. I am a huge fan of super forms too - it's the reason I put that mechanic into the game in the first place - but after player with the system I felt it added little to the game. Maybe I was mistaken. I'll let you guys know if anything changes.
I also have some additional information to reveal. Mostly revisions to existing mechanics, but also a bit of clarification on some new ones.
Hold Item Mechanics
The hold mechanics for items have been revised again after discussing them in the last few SNC sessions. I am fairly confident that these options provide the most balance while still allowing for some creative strategy. Please see the following document for the new draft of the mechanics:
item-hold-mechanics.txt
Battle Points Mechanics
The battle point mechanics have remained relatively unchanged with one important addition. Much like it is right now, missions have a base reward value and a target amount of turns that are used together to determine you final points - the new mechanic here is that missions will also have a target amount of robots in your party. You can easily select more of less of those robots (min 1 and max 8 like always) but your choices will affect your final reward in the same way the turn counter does. Please see the following document for more details:
battle-point-mechanics.txt
Difficulty Mode Mechanics
After the announcement of the difficulty modes many users started to panic about the effect on their games and the logic and math involved, but I'm here to assure you it's not that bad and come a long way since it's initial conception. The basic calculations for battle points will not change between difficulties and will instead only impact the final reward by +/-10% of the base. The target amount of turns and the party size limits will also remain consistent between mode and have no modifiers. Instead, there will be changes to the enemy intelligence level and the consistency and type of item drops. Please see the below document for more details:
difficulty-mode-mechanics.txt
@Bt Man : Yes, Tomahawk Man will eventually be in the game when the update is released. He wont be unlockable but you will be able to challenge him on the bonus fields and any Earth type starforce missions like the other preview bots.
@ThatOneEnderMan : Yes, when the new update is released the mechanics of starforce will change. Rather than boosting all abilities of a certain element by 10%, starforce will instead grant +10 Attack toward and/or +10 Defense against all damage of that type.
@Retro Pikachu : Thanks for responding. I'll take your words into consideration for possible mechanics in the update. I am a huge fan of super forms too - it's the reason I put that mechanic into the game in the first place - but after player with the system I felt it added little to the game. Maybe I was mistaken. I'll let you guys know if anything changes.
I also have some additional information to reveal. Mostly revisions to existing mechanics, but also a bit of clarification on some new ones.
Hold Item Mechanics
The hold mechanics for items have been revised again after discussing them in the last few SNC sessions. I am fairly confident that these options provide the most balance while still allowing for some creative strategy. Please see the following document for the new draft of the mechanics:
item-hold-mechanics.txt
Battle Points Mechanics
The battle point mechanics have remained relatively unchanged with one important addition. Much like it is right now, missions have a base reward value and a target amount of turns that are used together to determine you final points - the new mechanic here is that missions will also have a target amount of robots in your party. You can easily select more of less of those robots (min 1 and max 8 like always) but your choices will affect your final reward in the same way the turn counter does. Please see the following document for more details:
battle-point-mechanics.txt
Difficulty Mode Mechanics
After the announcement of the difficulty modes many users started to panic about the effect on their games and the logic and math involved, but I'm here to assure you it's not that bad and come a long way since it's initial conception. The basic calculations for battle points will not change between difficulties and will instead only impact the final reward by +/-10% of the base. The target amount of turns and the party size limits will also remain consistent between mode and have no modifiers. Instead, there will be changes to the enemy intelligence level and the consistency and type of item drops. Please see the below document for more details:
difficulty-mode-mechanics.txt
MetaKirbSter
MetaKirbSter
12,770,493 BP
54 TP |
1665 PP
Posted on April 3rd, 2015 at 3:01pm
Posted 2015/04/03 at 3:01pm
#11
@Adrian Marceau : Alright. Thanks, Adrian.
ThatOneEnderMan
ThatOneEnderMan
126,598,150 BP
12 TP |
703 PP
Posted on April 3rd, 2015 at 3:40pm
Posted 2015/04/03 at 3:40pm
#12
@Adrian Marceau : I like this change to starforce, it will make grinding stats just-wee-bit-harder, and easier at the same time. Also, the PBs are gonna be a little harder and easier too...Though, with the new Battle Point Mechanics, will this make PB grinding a bit tougher? Then again...when fighting a all level 100 team, that would get quite a lot of points...
TailsMK4Omega
TailsMK4Omega
12,787,140 BP
20 TP |
467 PP
Posted on April 3rd, 2015 at 6:23pm
Posted 2015/04/03 at 6:23pm
#13
...I do suppose some items before stood out more than others, so I understand the changes made to held items, disappointed as I am (guess I'll probably resort to either using Weapon Tanks or the 1-Ups, or Cores, we'll see). As for the AI, I keep thinking personally how the AI in the game could be much better, so I'm interested to see what changes to the AI happen in Hard Mode. 
Reisrat
Moderator
Reisrat
2,956,750 BP
8 TP |
309 PP
Posted on April 4th, 2015 at 9:12am
Posted 2015/04/04 at 9:12am
#14
Maybe we could still have the Copy Change gimmick, with them changing to the Core's type when they hold one. That way if someone doesn't like any of the available Water Core Robot Masters, for example, they can slap a Water Core on Bass or someone and use them again.
Ageman20XX
Developer
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP |
575 PP
Posted on April 4th, 2015 at 8:02pm
Posted 2015/04/04 at 8:02pm
#15
@TailsMK4 : Regarding the AI, we just talked about this briefly in chat but I'd love to hear more ideas on the subject here so we can discuss. You suggested having the enemy switch out when WE is low, which I totally agree with, so I'm interested to see what other ideas you have. I have my own, naturally, but I'd love to hear yours and everyone else's so I can review and see which are possible.
@Reisrat : Fantastic idea. That way you the same mechanic is present but it doesn't waste a turn activating it AND you can pre-meditate their abilities better when you're equipping stuff. Unless there are any objections, I think this is a great alternative and will probably use it in the update. Thanks.
@Reisrat : Fantastic idea. That way you the same mechanic is present but it doesn't waste a turn activating it AND you can pre-meditate their abilities better when you're equipping stuff. Unless there are any objections, I think this is a great alternative and will probably use it in the update. Thanks.
Plug Man
Plug Man
252,950 BP
0 TP |
11 PP
Posted on April 4th, 2015 at 8:27pm
Posted 2015/04/04 at 8:27pm
#16
@Adrian Marceau : To me (Yes i actually am meta) I'd like to see AI use better weapons.
Ageman20XX
Developer
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP |
575 PP
Posted on April 4th, 2015 at 10:20pm
Posted 2015/04/04 at 10:20pm
#17
I just added a link to the bottom of the first post with a preview of the entire database page. This is the version of the database I am working with at this moment on my home computer and I will update the link occasionally to show you my progress on the update. Please check the link below and hover over any of the icons for more info. :)
mmrpg-database_2015-04-04.html
mmrpg-database_2015-04-04.html
TheDoc
TheDoc
12,484,029 BP
3 TP |
717 PP
Posted on April 5th, 2015 at 1:17am
Edited on 2015/04/05 at 1:21am
Posted 2015/04/05 at 1:17am
Edited 2015/04/05 at 1:21am
#18
Hah! So the MMKs are still bosses! I win case closed :)
Also Poison is spelled wrong on Posion? Snake.
Also Poison is spelled wrong on Posion? Snake.
MetaKirbSter
MetaKirbSter
12,770,493 BP
54 TP |
1665 PP
Posted on April 5th, 2015 at 9:32am
Posted 2015/04/05 at 9:32am
#19
@Adrian Marceau : Oh We still have the Score Balls! XD Then we get like 3 Freeze bosses then cold man... suprising.
Beta Shadow
Contributor
Beta Shadow
33,453,614 BP
44 TP |
4930 PP
Posted on April 5th, 2015 at 2:29pm
Posted 2015/04/05 at 2:29pm
#20
@Adrian Marceau : 2 things:
1. I like how the types of the Killers are changed so they aren't forever neutral. Lol
2. So when will the NORMAL database be updated with the new sprites? I want a little humor thing based upon my Celebration Post for the Super Bowl. You know, for comedy reasons.
1. I like how the types of the Killers are changed so they aren't forever neutral. Lol
2. So when will the NORMAL database be updated with the new sprites? I want a little humor thing based upon my Celebration Post for the Super Bowl. You know, for comedy reasons.
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