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Ageman20XX
Ageman20XX
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Hey! Remember the "Winter Update Preview" thread? Mind-blowing, right? Yeah? Now forget that! That's the past! Shut it off, Zhu Li!

Shut if off, Zhu Li!

A lot has changed since I created that other topic and I'd like to start fresh. Some screenshots will be re-posted, some will be new. All will attempt to be more relevant to the current state of things. So let's get started, shall we?
Space Simulator Star

Starforce. (Or is it Star Force?) What an... interesting mechanic. So complicated, so overpowered, so controversial, so difficult to balance... and yet I insist on keeping it in the game . Why? Because, deep down, I know it has the potential to be a great thing. Hunting them all down in and of itself is both a joy and a challenge, and the god-like powers they grant are well worth the effort. Sure, tracking down all (currently) 1024 stars can be a grind, sometimes a bore, but when you finally get there it's incredibly rewarding. At such high power levels your character is able to mow-down enemies like it's nobody's business and with relatively little resistance! It's pretty great... unless you're talking about player battles.

Player Battle Select

As the defending team in a player battle, you (currently) have no defense against the opponent's starforce. This combined with the fact that your opponent is able to see your entire team before selecting theirs puts you at a huge disadvantage. This lead many players in the top spots to greatly dislike the player battle system, and others to hate the starforce system and suggest its removal. Both of these needed to be fixed, of course, but axing either them was not an option. Too many users have put forth massive amounts of time and effort into collecting their stars and the idea of axing them or removing their primary function does not seem like the fair or correct choice.

Core Guard is dead...

Because of these things, I've spent the last several months (almost a year now...) revising and tweaking the starforce mechanic and how it interacts with the game based on both my own ideas and feedback from the community in chats. I've also been revising other parts of the game, of course, and many of them coincide with fixing these issues. Some mechanics, like "coreguard" were conceived and quickly abandoned, while others like the Dark Elements have grown and evolved into something new and different. I believe that what we have now will be for the best, but as always I'm open to more changes as time goes on and as I get feedback from the community.

Leaderboard sadness... Tails has fallen.

Now, before I go on, I want to apologize to those who have been following this thread since the beginning and trying to make heads or tails of the whole process. I know it's been hard to keep track of what will be and wont be included in the update, but that's one of the pitfalls of open development. I could easily have kept my mouth quiet for a year and let everyone go stir crazy, but I wanted to share my thought process with everyone and build this thing together. So yeah, I'm both sorry and very thankful to all who have helped me sort through the messy details of this gigantic Winter Summer(?) Update.

Database Update Preview 2015/04/05
A snapshot of the prototype's database page as it will be after the update, including new robots, abilities, items, and more.
2015/04/04

Now, on with the show!!!!!
2015 Update Preview : Stats, Alts, and Elemental Forces
Posted by Ageman20XX on March 21st, 2015 at 6:34pm
Viewed 5673 Times
MegaBossMan
 
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MegaBossMan
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Posted on March 21st, 2015 at 7:03pm Edited on 2015/03/21 at 7:11pm
Posted 2015/03/21 at 7:03pm Edited 2015/03/21 at 7:11pm
#1
I told you all! I told you! I had a feeling big news was coming today....Hmmm...

Anyway, I can't go too much into detail about what I think atm, but to give it a quick overview? All of it is awesome. I honestly cannot wait for these new/edited features. This isn't even an Update anymore, this is a Version 2 of Prototype! Could I even dare to call it moving up a development stage? My hype level is WAAAAAY up in the clouds. I also like the three types of mecha support-so cool ^_^! Anyway, it looks like we have quite a few things to discuss tomorrow :)

Speaking of cool, who's that new bot in the MM7 section of the database?[I just had to sneak that in there!]

-Mobile MBM
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MetaKirbSter
 
MetaKirbSter
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Posted on March 21st, 2015 at 7:07pm
Posted 2015/03/21 at 7:07pm
#2
@Adrian Marceau : Woah. this seems amazing.
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TheDoc
 
TheDoc
12,484,029 BP
3 TP | 717 PP
Posted on March 21st, 2015 at 8:36pm Edited on 2015/03/21 at 9:16pm
Posted 2015/03/21 at 8:36pm Edited 2015/03/21 at 9:16pm
#3
I'm glad that Adrian decided to focus on this first and foremost; new content isn't nearly as effective if the mechanics are flawed. Now for comments ^_^:

1.) I see that Reggae still keeps track of which doctors have bought which abilities. I never really saw the point of this as you can transfer robots to the doctor with the ability instead of buying it for the doctor that has that robot.
2.) Regarding holdable cores, can there instead be a power reduction (idc about the WE)? If you don't have some kind of drawback to equipping a core as opposed to using a same-Core robot, then you're doing the opposite of diversifying the robots by making them more like a Copy bot. I'm not demanding you use my originally proposed drawback (that might take awhile...), but there definitely should be some limitation of sorts so that a.) The primary core is still being emphasized more and b.) You aren't overshadowing Neutral abilites. I understand the whole Dark entities thing, but every ability should be useful in normal combat, not just scripted story missions (in other words, that shouldn't be the only/main reason Neutral-abilities exist). Speaking of which...
EDIT: Thinking about it again, the opportunity cost acts as a drawback itself, so the most I would recommend is a slight power decrease or none at all. Still don't think there should be a power boost, though.
3.) The only difference between Dark Frags & Spires being immunity/affinity is not significant enough of a difference. If people know that they both aren't hurt by elemental attacks, they're not going to hit them with elemental attacks. I know that it's possible that someone might damage a Spire and then use a field-sweeping attack to heal it back, but creating two different dark entities just for that one possibility isn't necessary. I would suggest either scrapping one of the two or making a difference that isn't circumstantial, like different abilities, stats, etc. However, I definitely like the general concept; this is an excellent monkey wrench to throw at a Starforce-happy player who's trying to blow through the story.
4.) I'm personally glad you made the MMKs unplayable bosses. I feel like people underestimate the boss-like potential they have to stand out among the other RMs. Can't wait to see what kind of challenge they provide >:).

This looks very nice, and I actually can't wait to see what Mikey says about it (besides his opinion on Starforce -____-). Although I disagree with 75% of what he says, he does help put things in a different perspective. MBM's right; tomorrow will be interesting...
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Ageman20XX
 
Developer
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP | 575 PP
Posted on March 21st, 2015 at 9:24pm Edited on 2015/03/21 at 9:54pm
Posted 2015/03/21 at 9:24pm Edited 2015/03/21 at 9:54pm
#4
@TailsMK4 @MegaBossMan @MetaKirbSter :

Thank you for your posts, I'm glad you're excited! :D I look forward to uploading these changes some day and once again dramatically shifting the direction of the game - it will be a fun day indeed. ^_^

@TheDoc :

1. It's not done yet, but I plan to remove that restriction going forward. Unlocked abilities will be shared with all doctors once you reach a certain point in the game and I will update Reggae's shop top remove the Light/Wily/Cossack buttons and employ a single "Buy" button instead. Purchasing an ability via Reggae's shop will add it to the global pool and allow all doctors to equip it to their robots without transferring back and forth. Much easier than before.

2. I'm going to ask that you trust me on this one until the update is out and you're able to test the mechanic for yourself. After it's in the wild and people have some hands-on experience I'll be open to revising it again. Allowing a robot to equip other elemental abilities may seem crazy, but it's really not that bad. Robots only have 10 WE to work with, as you know, and a 25% reduction in cost is not that much in the end. Thunder Beam, for example, is an 8 WE ability that deals a respectable amount of damage. When equipped to someone like Elec Man, the cost for Thunder Beam is reduced to only 2 WE, allowing him to use it again and again. A robot like Roll on the other hand - using an Electric Core to grant access to the ability - would still require 6 WE to use. That only let's her use it once before needing to wait for a recharge or using something else. Couple that with the fact that they only get a +25% damage boost instead of +50% damage boost and the effects are further balanced. Besides, opting to give your robot a core means not giving them some other item - something that has it's own pros and cons.

3. I've amended the post to include this information, but in the Dark Frags and Spires also differ in their abilities and stats. Frags are much weaker in stats and use the Dark Boost ability to raise their own stats, while the Spires are more powerful in stats and use the Dark Break ability as well to lower the target's stats. I know this isn't a major difference, but they're not supposed to be incredibly deep characters. They're not even sentient, really - just automated objects that seek out elemental energy. I can understand your concerns though.

Thanks for your post, it helps me pin down what people are most worried about and quell any fears before we move forward. :)
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MetaKirbSter
 
MetaKirbSter
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Posted on March 21st, 2015 at 9:52pm
Posted 2015/03/21 at 9:52pm
#5
@Adrian Marceau : I can't Wait to get more Update info. I'm so excited! Q3 or Q4, or Q1 2016, most likely, correct?
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MegaBossMan
 
Administrator
MegaBossMan
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Posted on March 21st, 2015 at 10:22pm Edited on 2015/03/21 at 11:22pm
Posted 2015/03/21 at 10:22pm Edited 2015/03/21 at 11:22pm
#6
Alright, now that I'm back on a suitable typing source, I guess it's time for me to do my thing.
*Cracks fingers*
Update Release Date: Honestly, just as we all should know at this point, release dates shouldn't be a focus. Plus, putting a time limit on yourself won't help; Trust me, sprites are the same way! So, no worries on that one!

Stat Caps: Nothing much to say about this one, we all know the drill.

Alts: Once again, nothing to say about this one. Although I will miss Tron.....Perhaps one day, we could see her in a new role?

Auto's shop: Again, we all knew this was coming.

Reggae's shop: Once again, expected. Nice touch on the whole "Inventory changes on what you sell"! Interesting touch, and one that I hope stays! It'll also provide us with some more Copy-attacks, so that's another good point. Although, I assume the stats for Overdrive(IE Attack, Accuracy) is simply a placeholder.

Coreguard: :'( RIP Coreguard...May I forever miss you, no matter how flawed you were(would've been?)

Core Throwing: Hahaha, glad to see this in effect! I just love the idea that somewhere, there could be a Bubble Man, cornered by Metal Man. Bubble Man, who appears to be trapped, throws a Swift Core to save his life. I just quite honestly love this idea, and it's about time we got items that do damage.

Mecha Shards: I remember suggesting this idea on a limb, and I'm glad to see it make an appearance in-game. I just like the idea, you know?

Robots holding Items: .....I've expressed my concerns for this idea, and it's still one that bothers me. " A robot like Roll on the other hand - using an Electric Core to grant access to the ability - would still require 6 WE to use." This sentence eases my concerns, but I just don't feel right about this idea. Oh well, it's one of those situations where you have to really use the term "Wait and find out."
)A: What happens if Elec Man were to say, hold an Electric Core? Do the reductions still occur?

Star Force: No problem here, all in the sake of balancing. We'll just have to see if it passes the "You know who" test.

Dark Elements in Prototype: I've pretty much made my opinions clear on this topic, and frankly, me giving praise won't change anything ^_^ Great idea here, Adrian, and one that I'm particularly fond of myself. Can't wait to see how this comes into play(Imagine this on Bonus Field with it's crazy high-multipliers! Not being able to use these powers to your advantage while your enemy can? Sounds pretty hectic to me! Perhaps in a Bonus Field III?).

Mecha Support: I remember reading this a while ago, and I thought "This'd be a solid idea!" Never thought it would come so soon! I like it!

Field Multipliers: Nice balancing here! Now, most players won't give up in the first few levels! Field Support being split apart is also a pretty neat idea. Especially since it matches up with Mecha Support, and things matching up are always fun.

EXP points: Solid points as ever. I also now realize that perhaps different limits for levels isn't too bad. Although please don't make it huge jumps! Leveling up in the early game is pretty hard as is. And I knew about caps for a while now, so I already expressed my thoughts.

Bosses: This is understandable. While I know a lot of people like Ballade(I'm more of an Enker-guy myself), it's best this way. Although....If there was some sort of Versus mode we could implement? As in, you choose the stakes, the fields, everything! In this mode, perhaps we could(and the reason I brought this up) even choose from Bosses and Mechas? Granted, winning this shouldn't reap you anything(Beating a Met with Slur or Enker probably shouldn't get you a Yashichi), but it's a cool thought? Sadly, something like this probably would come down the line, or even never, and I'm not even sure if you feel a Versus mode is fit for this game. Anyway, ran a bit off-topic. So, to recap, I'm fine with not using Ballade or any other Bosses.

Running a bit on the character limit here! Had to cut out a tiny bit to fit in, but I managed to compress it all. I encourage anyone else to give their own little review on the idea(I already know someone who will :P), as Criticism is absolutely necessary into creating something better, and considering every view-point!

By the way, anyone who managed to get this far on my post, feel free to come to tomorrow's chat, at 6 PM EST! We'll most likely discuss the ideas presented here.
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Ageman20XX
 
Developer
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP | 575 PP
Posted on March 21st, 2015 at 11:10pm Edited on 2015/03/21 at 11:30pm
Posted 2015/03/21 at 11:10pm Edited 2015/03/21 at 11:30pm
#7
@MegaBossMan :

Robots holding Items :

I understand your concerns but yes, you'll have to wait and see how it feels. Try to compare the effect of holding a core to that of a Pokémon holding a Mega Stone. Incredibly powerful items that often grant brand new type coverage and abilities, but at the cost of not equipping any of the other and possibly more useful items.

There are many different variables at play and in reality you'll still be pretty restricted in what you do - go ahead and equip Roll with that Electric Core and give her all Electric abilities, but when you run out of WE on the first turn and can't do anything else we'll see how overpowered you feel. And you have to remember that a robot is only holding one core at any given time - once you switch to a different item any abilities that are not otherwise compatible are unequipped so it's not like robots will suddenly have every ability type available to them at once.

Maybe my Roll is great at Electric abilities but you have decided to make yours a master of Shield type abilities, but reasonably you'll still have to include non-elemental attacks in your 8 ability slots else you run the risk of running out of WE too soon. And to answer your question about Elec Man holding a second Electric Core, the ability to equip Electric type moves would obviously be redundant in this case but the boosted damage/recovery would stack on top of Elec Man's internal core. Instead of doing +50% more damage with Electric type attacks, he would instead do +75% more damage. Of course by equipping him with the same core type you're opting for more powerful native abilities versus a great variety of borrowed ones.

Bosses and Versus Mode :

I think it's been mentioned in the chat before, but at some point I would like to add some kind of mission creator/editor that lets you make your own missions and post them for other people to "download" and try. Maybe when that becomes a thing, I can let you unlock bosses for use in that mode as targets instead of in the main story. The mission creator would let you choose the field(s), multipliers, targets (robot, mecha, or boss), and maybe even some custom dialogue or something. That's not planned for this update, but it's something I'm thinking about all the same.
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Reisrat
 
Moderator
Reisrat
2,956,750 BP
8 TP | 309 PP
Posted on March 21st, 2015 at 11:27pm
Posted 2015/03/21 at 11:27pm
#8
I'll always wait for the ability to use the Dark Man set, even if it'll never show up.

This all seems like it'll improve how the game goes, especially the mission revision. It wasn't fun having to grind just to beat the first Robot Master at all.
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ShuGen
 
ShuGen
14,002,205 BP
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Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 9:13am Edited on 2015/03/22 at 9:19am
Posted 2015/03/22 at 9:13am Edited 2015/03/22 at 9:19am
#9
Im really impresed how many new things are coming to mega-manPrototype Sitemega-man well all acitive mods and Adrain im really enjoying this awesome megaman game and having allot of fun metting allot of cool random people on this site keep up awesome work and evrything else so im painted guy and i can wait for update come out dont rush adrian in the update and things i can wait ther is allot of time so tahts all form me now...
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Jdude330
 
Jdude330
4,404,751 BP
1 TP | 8 PP
Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 2:09pm
Posted 2015/03/22 at 2:09pm
#10
there is an easy way to balance the star force in player battles: have a shop run by Mega Man? from mega man powered up that provides a star force jammer. this starforce jammer is upgradeable and can block up to a 1000% boost. however, shadow stars can also upgrade the jammer. this shows up in player battles, on BOTH sides.
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MetaKirbSter
 
MetaKirbSter
12,770,493 BP
54 TP | 1665 PP
Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 2:14pm
Posted 2015/03/22 at 2:14pm
#11
@Jdude330 : I dont know if that would work...
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Jdude330
 
Jdude330
4,404,751 BP
1 TP | 8 PP
Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 2:30pm Edited on 2015/03/22 at 2:33pm
Posted 2015/03/22 at 2:30pm Edited 2015/03/22 at 2:33pm
#12
@MetaKirbSter well, the only problem I see is the insane rush for shadow starforce... but... maybe make the total defense stat of your robots/ the number of robots work instead?
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MetaKirbSter
 
MetaKirbSter
12,770,493 BP
54 TP | 1665 PP
Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 2:33pm
Posted 2015/03/22 at 2:33pm
#13
@Jdude330 : Well, it's gonna be changed to stats. (AND Please try to come to the chat... And stay)
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Jdude330
 
Jdude330
4,404,751 BP
1 TP | 8 PP
Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 2:35pm
Posted 2015/03/22 at 2:35pm
#14
@MetaKirbSter (I told you, my internet blocks it for chat and dating reasons.)
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Beta Shadow
 
Contributor
Beta Shadow
33,453,614 BP
44 TP | 4927 PP
Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 6:36pm
Posted 2015/03/22 at 6:36pm
#15
@Adrian Marceau : So if you have a flame core on Guts Man, he could use Fire Chaser?
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Jdude330
 
Jdude330
4,404,751 BP
1 TP | 8 PP
Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 8:14pm
Posted 2015/03/22 at 8:14pm
#16
@Bit Man:
1. Yes
2.WHY WOULD YOU DO SOMETHING SO USELESS?
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TheDoc
 
TheDoc
12,484,029 BP
3 TP | 717 PP
Posted on March 22nd, 2015 at 8:49pm
Posted 2015/03/22 at 8:49pm
#17
@Adrian Marceau : For the record, I only saw this post after the SNC. Sorry 'bout that :P

Thanks for the response! :)
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Retrop
 
Retrop
14,718,847 BP
31 TP | 768 PP
Posted on March 23rd, 2015 at 1:29am
Posted 2015/03/23 at 1:29am
#18
Just when you thought you've seen it all, BAM! This update shall be worthy of being the only update of the year; I'll have SO much stuff to do! I also like how player battles went from "Max attck = WIN" to pokemon level player battles. Though I'm kind of disappointed at the lack of core change for copy bots, as I'm probably the only one who LIKED the system. Oh well.
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Ageman20XX
 
Developer
Ageman20XX
9,269,071 BP
221 TP | 575 PP
Posted on March 23rd, 2015 at 9:12pm Edited on 2015/03/23 at 9:28pm
Posted 2015/03/23 at 9:12pm Edited 2015/03/23 at 9:28pm
#19
I've updated the post regarding the secondary effects of hold items and changed the description for holding robot cores. In light of last night's discussion and the confusion about my proposed mechanics for the cores, I have decided to streamline the feature slightly. Here is the revised description:


Robot Cores
core-nonecore-cuttercore-impactcore-freezecore-explodecore-flamecore-electriccore-timecore-earthcore-wind
core-watercore-swiftcore-naturecore-missilecore-crystalcore-shadowcore-spacecore-shieldcore-lasercore-copy
When held by a robot master, a robot core allows the user to equip any ability of the same type - even if it does not match their internal core type. Secondary cores do not grant any reduction in WE nor boost damage/recovery like primary cores, however, so plan accordingly.
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Beta Shadow
 
Contributor
Beta Shadow
33,453,614 BP
44 TP | 4927 PP
Posted on March 23rd, 2015 at 9:19pm
Posted 2015/03/23 at 9:19pm
#20
@Adrian Marceau : I can't wait to place the robot core thing in action.
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